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We welcome Taylor Knox back to the Surf Strong Show. Today he is joined by Matt Griggs. Together they run Nature of Success retreats in different locales throughout the year.
On this episode we discuss Nature of Success, Kelee Meditation, personal performance, and the joy of building programs with friends that help others succeed.
Links to what we discussed in the episode
Full Episode Transcript
00:00
Matt Griggs
Set about building a program over the next sort of few months, which I guess in essence was almost my thesis on the mind and performance and physical health, which are the three pillars that set up the holistic nature of the program, that is the nature of success.
00:15
Greg Finch
On today's episode of The Surf Strong Show. We welcome back Taylor Knox. And joining us today is Matt Griggs. Together they run Nature of Success retreats, which we touch on today. I was lucky enough to be a part of their recent retreat in Selena Cruz, Mexico, and I can't speak highly enough of the experience. It is the way they run their retreats, how fulfilling it is. And on a personal note, one of the best surf trips I've ever been on just for the pure fact that surfing wasn't the center and end all, be all. We were lucky enough to get some great waves and some fun waves to play on. But having the personal development component, the meditation component, and the connection with an incredible group really made this trip special. I'd like to remind you to like, comment, subscribe to this and all of.
01:20
Greg Finch
Our episodes of the Surf Strong Show.
01:22
Greg Finch
Wherever you get your podcasts for all show notes and links that we talk about in the episodes, you can go to Surfstrongfit.com podcast for this and all the past episodes. Thanks for joining us. It really means a lot. Let's get to our conversation with Matt Griggs and Taylor Knox.
01:42
Taylor Knox
How you doing, buddy?
01:44
Matt Griggs
Better now.
01:50
Greg Finch
All different. Worldwide caffeine intake.
01:53
Taylor Knox
Is that what we're doing here?
01:55
Greg Finch
Matt, can you give us a description.
01:57
Greg Finch
Of what nature's success is all about?
02:00
Matt Griggs
It was born after my days on the world tour where I was always interested in a holistic model of performance that was not only conducive of performing better, but just living better. And I'd spent all this time on tour, I'd spent all this time in pondering. I was a few years into my meditation practice at that stage, I was spending a lot of time in nature and it was really just an inspiration of being in nature a lot and wanting to bring some kind of philosophy and practicality of how to perform and live better. So when I came off tour, I started coaching some executives just as a result of doing a few keynotes here and there and I didn't really have a program. And then I set about building a program over the next sort of few months, which I guess in essence was almost my thesis on the mind and performance and physical health, which are the three pillars that set up the holistic nature of the program that is the nature of success.
03:01
Matt Griggs
So it's based in those three pillars. And if you look at the title, nature means your intrinsic value. Our value in this world is really everything we understand. So it's helping people become more understanding as human beings because problems go away where understanding appears, right? And then success from the Latin, from the origin, just means to go on well or to go after. So we try to get people into a place where they have more self awareness, where their mind is more understanding, get them clear on who they are, how they want to live. And then second to that, what is it they would like to achieve? And with their performance within their craft, how do we develop their skill and their knowledge to be amazing at whatever it is they do and be clear on where it is they want to go in terms of goals and their action points to get there.
03:53
Matt Griggs
So it's a very thorough you know, that's what we're doing day to day when we're coaching people one one, which is mostly executives and what Taylor and I are also bringing with the tours and the retreats that we do in Maldives and Crescent Head in Australia and Mexico.
04:10
Greg Finch
Yeah, that's really interesting. What's interesting about that, too, is even if some of the core people that you're working with are an executive level, the adaptation of that seems really universal. Like wherever you are on your path and whatever perhaps your background is, when you come to it, at that point, it is about your performance. It's about your perspective. It's about where you want to go. Which makes for a really interesting interaction, I would imagine, on some of the more in person retreat things you're doing have, let's say, an executive level that is maybe on the front end of their surfing path and have somebody that's maybe a little bit younger, that doesn't have that exposure to the executive pressures and all that stuff, but is farther along in their surfing path. The struggles within surfing is a unifier right, both humbling and amazing. And having that divergence, I think, would make for really interesting interactions and connections, for sure.
05:10
Matt Griggs
And it's a great metaphor, too, right? Like, what a metaphor for life? Surfing know in these retreats that we do, Taylor and I, they might be surf geeks and they come for the surfing, but then they realize, right, Taylor, there's so much more that they can learn. And in those days when Taylor and I were working together on tour, I always tried to have a holistic model because I kind of realized if there's any holes in the way we saw the world or in our performance that would show up in our performance. In those days, we looked at physical, technical, tactical, and psychological as the four sort of areas that set up this holistic understanding of performance that we would talk about and when were working together on the tour. And then they just naturally evolved into what is now the nature of success, into just three state of mind, which Taylor and I have been practicing Kili meditation for such a long time now, and it's been such a huge benefit to our life and everyone that we've shared it with.
06:15
Matt Griggs
Physical health. Because how far can you go in life if your mind and your physical energy isn't strong? And again, the performance side of things, whether it's surfing or whatever, and you hit the nail on the head, it's very universal. And that's why this program, the Nature of success, has been so successful across every industry and every walk of life. It's humbling and crazy how successful it's been. And in any given day, I'm coaching anyone from a finance guy to a business owner to a tech dude. It's the whole walk of life because life is based in universal principles, and when you understand them, how it works, naturally, you can work with them and start to get into this flow state of how you're performing and how you're living.
07:05
Taylor Knox
Yeah, I can't agree more. I mean, for the longest time in my career, I focused a lot on just the physical side of things. And if anything went wrong in the other areas of my life, I would just train harder, thinking that somehow doing more push ups was going to get me out of this emotional baggage that I had, which did not work. Pain is a great motivator, and when you're in pain inside, you feel like you have no hope and you have no one to turn to. You realize that where I needed to turn was not to the outside of me, but inside of me. And I think that's a common denominator when we work with people. What I've noticed is that we're not there to teach them about marketing. They're already really good at that. Or accounting. They want to have a more balanced life.
08:07
Taylor Knox
They want to be just as successful with their marriage as they are with their job. But one might be out of balance. So I think for me, what I'm seeing with people is them just coming to their own, realizing, like, oh, I have all the answers I'm looking for. I just haven't been able to access them. And this is a way to access them.
08:29
Greg Finch
What a great tool to have surfing as a facilitator for that. Again, complete divergent of experience, talent, all of those things within the ocean itself. But it's the equalizer. And we just talked about before how humbling it is. You can't be arrogant in the ocean. And the times that I've had interaction with, say, a high powered executive, and I've done some events where they're involved, but their exposure to the ocean is very limited. And they try to put this facade on of what they know really well, which is being in control, projecting power. It's just the role that they're more used to. It falls apart in the ocean because it doesn't take much for them to knock them down to the place where they're in this vulnerable place, which allows them to, of course, be open. And I don't want to over generalize, but it also opened up the ability to connect.
09:29
Greg Finch
At that point in my life, I was younger. What did we have in common or what did we perceive that we had in common? Very little. But that denominator through there just opened us up to where were just chatting like were friends. And having surfing facilitate those things is just such a wonderful experience. When you started coaching Taylor in the Nature of Success retreats, what was that learning like for you in the beginning? Obviously, you're an incredible surfer. You're experienced, you've probably coached for countless years, just people around you and mentored you. But in that kind of setting, was that really unique for you?
10:13
Taylor Knox
Yeah, unique. And I was nervous, and I still get nervous. I can't believe what I'm doing, because when I had an oral test in high school, I would just take an F. I wouldn't do it just because I got so nervous. And the fact that I'm speaking in front of people is kind of funny and ironic to me, but I guess it was in me, and I just never could access it.
10:41
Greg Finch
Personal growth right there. Like it's your own personal growth for that.
10:45
Taylor Knox
I probably had what I consider an embarrassing experience somewhere in school and then just shut it down. So I'm kind of just trying to put that tool back in my tool belt. I think I had it, and then at some experience, I took it out and threw it away. And now I went back into the trash, picked it back up, and put it back in my tool belt because I realized it's pretty useful. And it's been just a great learning experience because I'm learning so much from these guys, right? Because they are so high up in their field of whatever it is that they do. We've had anesthesiologists we have a roofer, we have a construction purse, we have a loan officer. I mean, we have all these different types of people. And our common ground obviously starts at surfing. Coaching surfing for me is like, I can do it with my eyes closed.
11:36
Taylor Knox
It's so easy. It's this stuff for me, that's the challenge when it comes to this stuff. He's the guy that's been on tour 20 years, and I'm like the coach. The roles are a little reversed, but we're learning from each other, and I'm learning. I'm getting there, and I'm pretty happy with it. Yeah, it's been fun.
11:59
Greg Finch
So you're obviously coaching clients through the Nature of Success protocols and programs.
12:05
Matt Griggs
Okay.
12:05
Greg Finch
And then someone says, oh, I absolutely want to go to a retreat. They're obviously already working through what their goals are and what they're doing. Are they doing anything to prepare for the actual trip itself? I would imagine there'd be a big variance in regular surfing, regular endurance being utilized. And are they preparing for the trip? In a way, whether it's through the Nature of success programs itself or just preparing them to suddenly they're surfing five days in a row, I think for.
12:41
Taylor Knox
Anything, I think it just comes down. If they can't go surfing, I just try to tell them, like, go paddling, just paddle around, get in the ocean and paddle. Because the first thing I think the hardest thing or the place you get sore the most is if you don't paddle for a long time, those muscles, you want to have those switched on. The surfing part, once you're on the wave, feels like that is like riding a bike. You get that quicker than paddling a couple, few hundred yards in a lineup.
13:11
Greg Finch
Absolutely.
13:13
Matt Griggs
Wherever people are, we just take them to the next level. So some people can be guilty of, and I'm sure everyone will resonate with this, is that I better be surfing. Good, because everyone's going to be watching. And that guy down there, Taylor Knox, one of their favorite surfers, is going to be watching. So sometimes we sense this unnecessary pressure that people put on themselves, where obviously it's not about that at all. Everyone just wants to have a good time. And wherever you are in your life and in your surfing, let's just go to the next level, let's learn a lot, let's have a great time and let's get better. So that's the essence, really, of the trip. And we speak to each other in the lead up. So if anyone needs assistance with their quiver and stuff like that, then there's help there. But when we get there, it's like, okay, where are we at?
14:03
Matt Griggs
And let's get better. Let's keep moving this along.
14:06
Greg Finch
That ability to take the pressure off not only is conducive to enjoying the experience, but it also puts them in a better place to actually experience it and surf better. I mean, we all know as soon as we're like this, it's not going to turn out too well.
14:23
Matt Griggs
No, totally. Whether it's surfing or again, surfing is that great metaphor for life because some of my corporate clients can have stress or anxiety around, say, public speaking at Taylor's earlier point. And if you imagine yourself going across the wave and there's stress, if there's too much energy in your body, which stress is going to create, there's going to be tension in the body and that's going to block movement. If there's stress in the mind, it's also going to block articulation. So that's why it's so important to understand the mind and to get to a place where you can learn to be centered and learn to be relaxed so you can access the best of your skill and knowledge. Because we hear know like physical coordination all the time, which a generalized term of that would be proprioception, but you don't hear too many people talk about mental know, being able to center your thoughts and being able to stay centered mentally, which is what Achilles does.
15:24
Matt Griggs
It's a centering exercise and being able to become centered in mind will bring out being centered in the physical, whether it's with brain function in your articulation or in skill with something like surfing. So I'm sure Taylor will attest to know. We grew up in a world like everyone. We're taught about reentries, we're taught about cutbacks, we're taught about how to win a heat. But no one really helped me when I was a professional surfer of how to deal with loss and how to deal with my anger issues and how to deal with feeling like a loser and how to feel like how bad I felt when I had to explain to everyone that I just lost a heat and I felt embarrassed and all this kind of stuff. So if we're going to evolve as humans, we need to have this range of experience and we need to have this range of understanding that everything in life, it either helps us or it hinders us.
16:17
Matt Griggs
So if we're going to use that as a basic principle, which it is, that needs to shine through everything, so we can start to feed everything that helps us and start to learn detachment, which is another process of keely meditation, we can learn to detach from things that are hindering us in our experience of.
16:37
Taylor Knox
That'S. That's a really well said, Matt. I think one of the things, too, that when it comes to our retreats is that what I see is, and it probably goes across all aspects of life is people come and they start comparing themselves off what someone else is doing. So they get into this comparison based situation and that never leads to a good place within yourself, like when you start comparing off someone else. And I'm sure that happens too at their job to see people get through that. And in the first couple of days we've seen people get kind of upset with their performance or they want to go out and get tens on every wave and by the end they're like, wow, this isn't about that. You guys aren't going to like me more if I surf better. We're going to like it's.
17:31
Matt Griggs
So true. Yeah. It gets back to the mind too, right? Is that how can you access your best if you're in a comparison mode or if you're stressed or if you're, I don't know, you're so focused on how it looks, you're not focused on how it feels. And surfing is a feel sport. You've got to be able to feel your balance. If you're going to connect to the wave, you've got to have that sensitivity and be able to feel the wave. And if you're more focused on how it looks, you're already blocked. So again, with what Taylor and I have learned over the years from our mentor and through our experience of life, that the mind is 80% of our health, our energy and also our performance. So our program mirrors that in how we teach people, even how we teach surfing technique. 80% of what we teach is actually in the mind.
18:23
Matt Griggs
Because if we get into comparison, if we get into adrenaline, if we get into expectations and putting pressure on ourself, and even just the ability to like, if you watch Taylor surf. He's such a good example of know, like and I don't use that word know, that's a huge compliment to Taylor. But it's also a huge compliment tom that he's put in the same as Taylor, in my view, because I consider them both amazing at their craft. If you watch what Taylor and Tom's eyes are doing when they go across the wave, 20% of their attention is ahead 80% where they are. That's the feeling of connection they have. And you'll see their eyes just go in front of the nose of a surfboard up to the lip. It's kind of a secondary thing. They're really connected where they are. So again, what a metaphor for life if all your attention is up ahead when you're surfing or when you're living, you're ahead of yourself.
19:26
Matt Griggs
You're surfing with impatience. And if your attention is ahead on the surfboard, you're probably going to be leaning on your front foot too much and bogging and missing the lip because you'll get stuck in the middle of the wave and race out to the face. So it's just another example of what's happening in the mind has the biggest effect on what's happening in life, whether it's surfing or performance in another job or another craft.
19:51
Greg Finch
Yeah, it's that ability to exactly what you're doing. You're giving a percentage of balance of something as over generalized as presence, but it really is everything. I think. People ask me that don't surf, they'll say, well, why surfing? Try to explain that to me. And I said, well, that's a big question. But it always comes down to that idea. Like when something is happening in my life that I'm trying to process or work through or improve, it will always better after a paddle. If I get waves, that's a bonus. But it's all just about that connection, and it comes down to that ability. The ocean just allows you so effectively to let something go because you can't be so many circles moving at once. And if I want to be on this wave at this moment, I have to absolutely be right here. It just doesn't work otherwise.
20:51
Greg Finch
And that's what keeps me getting back in the ocean. Some days, as much as we love this thing, some days I'm talking myself out of it, oh, I got to do this, I got to do that. No, go take 40 minutes, go take an hour and just paddle, and you're going to come back and be that much more effective at whatever you're trying to work through. That's what always I try to center that. It's just be present in that moment. And surfing just provides that so effectively.
21:20
Taylor Knox
Yeah, I think also it's just nature, right? It just feels good to be in nature. Whether it's a walk in the forest or paddle out, the person that is up hiking feels the same way as the person that's out surfing. It's where they go. Hopefully they don't have their cell phone and they're not being connected and they can actually be alone with their own thoughts. Not everyone is graced with having an ocean or having a beautiful forest to walk through. So this is just something that you can do wherever you are in the world. And it doesn't take an hour. You're not sitting in lotus position for an hour. You don't have to find a studio to do it. You don't need a teacher. It's all about you. You take it wherever you go and it works as well as dedicated.
22:12
Greg Finch
You are kind of on that thought right there. And this is to both of you guys can take turns answering this. Let's just say you were doing a small talk to, I don't know, freshmen at a university or graduating seniors at high school. And on this topic of trying to manage all of these things that we're presented with at various stages of life and needing some real basic practical tools to click into, how would you convey that to them? What would you have them do? Two or three things. It can be breath work. It can be trying to focus into initiating a meditation practice, whatever jumps out as you of starting to help this collection of young people trying to progress into their life, what would be the top two or three things you would give them, Matthew? No pressure. No pressure.
23:26
Matt Griggs
I would remind them that life's not easy. You know, if anything, it gets harder. So rather than get to a place where your experience of life and these challenges are making us stressed, why don't we get strong where we learn from these challenges and we grow from these challenges? And how do we develop a strong enough foundation that when we meet the experience of life, we don't get knocked from our center? We can rise to the occasion because history is littered with people that were very good at something they did, but they still experience stress or anxiety or depression or all these things. So for me, what the nature of success is about and what Taylor and I are trying to bring to the wall with what we're doing with the program is how do we find ourselves in the pursuit of success? How do we grow from all these experiences?
24:25
Matt Griggs
How do we stay free in our mind and not be so reliant on everything else to bring us happiness? Because if your happiness is conditional, then your state of mind and it's going to go up and down with the conditions. So part of the initial pillar and part of the strongest foundation is our state of mind. And that's why we teach Keely meditation, because once you start to learn to become more primary pointed, where you learn to develop a good feeling inside of yourself that isn't reliant on anything else. Now you have a very strong foundation. This foundation is not only so strong because of that, but you also learn detachment, where in essence, detachment is an openness to life without being affected by it. Because you're going to have so many challenges come your way. What's your strategy for having strength in your mind to deal with that?
25:23
Matt Griggs
Because if somebody's really easily affected, we've got to be humble here and say, maybe that's a weakness in my mind and I need to look at that. So the practice of Keely meditation helps you lawn detachment, where as I said, in essence, it's an ability to be open to life without being affected by it. When you're not affected by something, not only can you access freedom, which obviously lends to happiness and enjoyment, but it also helps you access perception because you've detached from cause and effect. You're not in this kind of up down yoyo experience of life where you're constantly going up and down. You have stability, in this case, stability of mind. What a great foundation. So from there we talk a lot about self awareness as well, because that becomes another really strong foundation for living your life, because not knowing yourself is a very weak foundation to know.
26:17
Matt Griggs
This is about know taylor rides a wave different to how you ride a wave or how I ride a wave. It's not about fitting into some kind of formula outside. It's about finding your way. That means you need a bit of self study. Know thyself right. So that's the strongest foundation is this strength of mind and having a foundation of self awareness so we don't lose ourselves in the pursuit of success. You have this really strong foundation and from there then we just develop our craft, whatever your craft is, and make sure our physical energy is optimized in a way where you're just not limited in your experience of life. And isn't that a great feeling inside where you can express yourself with freedom, you can bring your best to any moment and that's something to feel good about because not only were you good at something with what you did, but more importantly, you just feel good about who you are.
27:15
Matt Griggs
That was what was missing in I think all of our upbringing is people, if they were good at what they did in terms of coaches, they can teach you how to be good at something. But I think we missed the point along the way, like how do we be good at being human, how do we be good at just being ourselves? So that's a big part of the process that we learn via suffering, like most people do. And I'm not saying we've both got it figured out right now. But we're getting closer, aren't we?
27:48
Taylor Knox
As long as you're walking in the right direction. I mean, there's no such thing as a perfect person, right? The greatest freedom you will ever have is self responsibility.
28:00
Greg Finch
Absolutely. It's interesting, that part. Something really resonated, though, when you were saying that, Matt, which is you were talking about know thyself, and I definitely do not surf like Taylor Knox. No. Will that ever happen? But I just get a little bit better each time. I will feel better about myself.
28:24
Matt Griggs
Taylor's actually a really interesting person to study. We're going to geek out on surfing now. And one of my really good friends, who's actually quite a good surfer, actually, he made a comment a couple of years ago. He said when he watches pro surfers, taylor's the one he likes to watch the most because not obviously taking anything away from Taylor, but he said it feels more achievable because Taylor's surfing is simple, but the simplicity is at a very elite level. So a lot of his surfing is fundamentals. He goes fast and he does really hard rail turns, and the turns he does, an average surfer can semi access. They just can't do it to his level. So in that way, he's a really great person to study because he's doing similar turns just at a higher level. So you can really watch his technique and learn a lot from it.
29:24
Taylor Knox
Yeah, well, it's a challenge. Like you said, it's not easy being a human being. The great thing about surfing is that as you get older and your body gets older, you have to adjust everything your training regimen, your diet, the way you look at surfing, how long you surf. I don't do anything the way I did it on tour. Like, if I had my mind that I have now and I was to go back, I would have been much more successful and had a lot more happy years on tour, I would say, than I did, I think. At first ten years of my career, I was surfing for I wouldn't say the wrong reasons, but every reason I was surfing was a second point. I got caught up in surfing for your contract or surfing to make the tour surfing for and it wasn't until I dropped off tour in 98, I think, and had to re qualify, and I took two months and I said, do you even like to do this anymore?
30:34
Taylor Knox
And after two months I was like, yeah, actually I do like to do this, and I want to keep doing this as a job. And so I re qualified and got back on tour another ten years. But then I'd learned about the mind, and I was like, oh, okay. This is a whole nother level of not just happiness, but fulfillment. I was fulfilled. I would say I was at the highest of the low point, but then I started entering. Into the higher point, which is the 75% 25 was in the physical and I got a great result and it was awesome. And all people are patting you on the back and it's great. And then you walk away and you go home and you sleep in bed and you're alone with your own thoughts and you're like, Am I stoked right now? I don't know.
31:29
Taylor Knox
And then you start leaning like it doesn't matter. The trophy didn't make me much happier or angrier than I was before. I still have the same issues even though I have this great result. So I started working on the issues which are all within me, primary point. And that's when I really started to enjoy surfing way more. And my surfing got better. People are saying, how do you stay so relevant in your 50? It's because I enjoy it now and I'm not out there being hard on myself. I'm not comparing myself to others. Well, I still do. I still do. I'm not perfect. I like to be inspired by people like Mick when I go surf with him. But there will be times where I'm like, I'll compare myself and I'll be like, here I go again. I'm get there. I'm not there fully, I'm not there 100%, but I'm definitely going in the right direction.
32:30
Taylor Knox
And I think that's what makes growing older and surfing such a wonderful thing. If you don't become bitter and you don't become rigid, bitterness usually goes into a rigid body and makes a rigid body. So if you get old and bitter, it's probably going to affect your muscles. I think in your actionary times you have to grow old, as they say, gracefully. But I think there's still so much untapped and it's not through the physical, but through the mind on what you can do even as a surfer, as you get older. I mean, I think we've seen some great examples of guys ripping at 60, but I think there is way better surfing to be done at 60 than anyone has ever seen.
33:21
Matt Griggs
Yeah, I agree 100%. And you're right, Taylor, we've learned it firsthand. But you consider the mind's effect on the body. If the mind is rigid, so too will be the physical tissues. And if the mind's rigid, it obviously blocks movement in real time, but it can block the physical tissues in a way where they build up over time. And now we have a restriction of movement that more stretching and more push ups isn't really going to help because the problem isn't in the physical, it's in the mind. And if you look at how Taylor moves now, and even I'm 47, just turned 47 a few weeks ago, I feel like my movement is getting better, but I'm probably stretching less. I mean, Taylor can attest to. I used to train and stretch way more 1020 years ago, and I was admittingly rigid with it because I thought that was everything.
34:18
Matt Griggs
I need to train more. I need to do this more to feel good. But most of the feeling good is in the mind. And now I've realized it's just about balance. And a good training program should really mirror that. 80 20 principle. 80% in the mind, 20% in the physical. If you can get both the mind and body strong, the mind body connection, what does that look like in your life, not just in your surfing? I say this a lot when I'm working with sporting organizations, too. Most people seem to agree with that. That 80% of your health, your energy, your performance is in your state of mind. And 20% everything else. I'll go, yeah, for sure. And so does your training mirror that. And most people it does not very far from it. So with what Taylor and I are doing, with the nature success, it absolutely mirrors that.
35:08
Matt Griggs
And we get into some very interesting conversations with know, and particularly in the Maldives trips now, because the Maldives has become an invitational thing where everyone that comes has been doing the keely meditation for a long time. So Taylor and I can go to more of our range, so they become very interesting. But every trip, you know, there's crescent and there's Mexico, and there's this masterclass that's coming up in California that we can teach the basic principles and start to develop a foundation to move forward of greater freedom and health and happiness and enjoyment of life. And that's important. This is our life, right? Let's live it.
35:50
Greg Finch
Well, what's powerful about that? Back to the 80 20 concept and what Taylor was describing of moving through these different points of your life and surfing can get better and what's possible in our surf at that. What that all really is portraying and projecting is adaptation, right? The ability to adapt to what is coming at you, whether it's physical, whether it's a life change, if you have that strength, if you will, or awareness of where you are, you're able to adapt and use that presence. And tools to overcome that, grow past it, and then progress from that point again. As opposed to that thing just knocking you so off track. Say it's just a physical injury. That physical injury now is part of your equation. Now if you have the being resolute in your mind and that strength and that practice allow your body to heal, do the things you have to do within that, but that presence and strength in your mind to then grow from that point, it's just always there for you.
37:09
Greg Finch
It's a tool that you're right. The stronger that is, the more aware you are of that, the better. All the other pieces that you have to deal with are going to be. It's just extremely powerful.
37:22
Taylor Knox
Yeah, a lot of people, they fragment everything. They'll put physical exercise over here, and they'll put relationships over here, job over here, and they all should be able to kind of coexist harmoniously. But a lot of times you have one area of your life that's a little bit suffering and you kind of just don't look at it. And you keep just focusing on your hobby and your job, and then all of a sudden it gets to a breaking point, maybe in a relationship where you're like, well, the warning signs have been here for like a couple of years and I've just chosen not to look at them or distract myself with something else. So for me, I think for surfing and what made my surfing better was I used to use surfing as an escape and when things were not going my way or there was getting really frustrating, I would just go out surfing.
38:19
Taylor Knox
It was like I got away from it. But then you can't surf for 24 hours a day, can you? So you got to come back to the beach at some point and go home.
38:32
Matt Griggs
Even a pro surfer can't surf 24 hours.
38:37
Taylor Knox
So what you learn is that you're like, wow, okay. When I can take care of this area that I've neglected for a while, actually give it some attention and take some a little away from my hobby. My hobby, even though I wasn't doing it as long, got a lot better, like my focus and my craft, I thought more hours in the water meant you're a better surfer. And what I learned was, no, just whatever time you do get to spend in the water, be focused and be present and you can work on like you just need a few waves. You don't need a few hours. You just need a few waves and you can get out of the water. Maybe you did one thing right on a bottom turn, like on two waves, great. You went in, you remember the feeling instead of going out there and catching 30 waves.
39:32
Taylor Knox
And the whole session was kind of just a big mess and you were frustrated with the crowd and you don't remember getting a good one. It's just all about appreciation. I think when it comes to where you are in life, it's having appreciation. Because if you don't have appreciation for a little, you're not going to have an appreciation for a so yeah, you.
39:56
Matt Griggs
Think about the feeling of it all to improve. Back to your earlier point, Greg, about adaptation. Success happens when a good idea is turned into a good action or a pure idea goes into an action. It starts as an idea, success, but it's understood through action. So again, it's not about if you just surf for three or 4 hours, you're going to get tired. And as soon as you get tired, you're just going to revolt to habits. Because something I learned as a coach a long time ago, whatever you train, you get better at. So be careful what you train because that works for both good and bad. For example, over Christmas, people get a lot better at drinking right and eating bad food. So train with purpose. What is it you would like to get better at? And what is it you would actually like to get worse at?
40:45
Matt Griggs
That's a pretty good question. And most people don't consider like what are you not going to do today? Or how do you not want to be? And for very successful people, whether they're leaders in business or in surfing, it's not just what Taylor does that makes him a really good surfer, it's what he does not do. When was the last time you saw him pump or double stage? A bottom turn or a cutback? He doesn't do that sort of stuff. But people don't really consider what you don't do as important. And there are things for everyone to consider that are listening to this how do I want to be? And this is what governs performance. It's not just your behaviors, which is what you're doing, but it's underpinning, it your state of mind, how you're being. So how would you like your life to feel, how do you want to be in this world?
41:31
Matt Griggs
And then what is it you would like to do? And how do we get better at both? And if it's surfing, like Taylor said, rather than surfing for two or 3 hours, you're better off going in like what is it I would like to work on know and go in with a task and give yourself feedback on that. If you've got someone like Taylor to watch, that's just bonus points because he sees things that they probably don't see and now you're getting feedback and that translates to new ideas and those new ideas can turn into new actions and that's where we get adaptation and success. That's when we get people moving forward. If you're not really pondering on where your improvement is coming from, you tend to just keep repeating the same. Which gets us to this place that I talked about a little while ago called Terminal Mediocrity, where you just stop improving and we've stopped living, right, if we've stopped learning and if we've stopped improving.
42:26
Matt Griggs
And for me, that's part of the whole nature of success thing too. It is natural, it's innate and intrinsic in us all just to want to grow. And hopefully everyone gets a say in that, because you don't want to grow, because of how the world's making you and how you're reacting off everything else. Let's have a strong foundation of knowing thyself and having a strong mind where you are really plugged in mentally to this natural growth, but you have your own free will, where you're surfing the way you would like to surf and you're living the way you would like to surf and you respect that in other people too. You're just being yourself and you're allowing other people to do the same thing. And for me, again, that metaphor of surfing is so good because while there's Know and Taylor and I teach this a lot, there's some basic principles that govern good know, but there's still so much room for self expression.
43:24
Matt Griggs
So how Taylor rides a wave is different to how Mick rides a wave. There's some similarities in their technique for Know, which is another compliment to Taylor, because that's Mick's favorite surfer. But how they compete and how they strategize in a heat is so different because they're just different people. And to Taylor's earlier point, if Taylor gets caught up in comparing himself to Mick and tries to strategize like Mick, it's not going to work, is it, brother?
43:53
Taylor Knox
No. I think that's one of the greatest things about the nature success is it sort of asks you some really good questions, but you answer it in your own words, because everyone in life is going to have a different puzzle piece configuration of what means harmony in their life or what's going to bring happiness to them. It's not going to be the same recipe for every person. So they get to write stuff down, and then I go, look at what you wrote down. I didn't write that down. I didn't give you one of those words. Those all came out of your mouth, and you're basically telling me how you would like to be, and now let's just get you there.
44:41
Matt Griggs
Yeah. This is the mistake, I think, for coaches, too, is they tell the student, whether it's in surfing or anywhere, what they need to do. And sometimes my thought is, does anyone ever ask you how you would like to surf? Or does anyone ever ask you how you would like to live? Wouldn't that be a better way to coach, where you ask really good questions and you can teach and impart really good basic principles and universal understandings. But for me, the art of coaching is you impart this sort of wisdom, but without interfering with their free will, without interfering with their own foundation. You get to decide, like Taylor said, how many issues do people have just because you've been told what to do your whole life? Right? And it's usually from people that don't know what they're doing.
45:38
Taylor Knox
That's true. And then you collect all these belief systems that don't work for you. And so I think it's more about not what you gain in life, but really what you lose. You want to lose all the things that haven't been working for you.
45:54
Matt Griggs
Amen.
45:56
Greg Finch
And sometimes it's also about this concept of support and collaboration. I know in my own coaching, what I say to the surfers that I coach early on is there'll be times when we'll do a check in and you'll come and you'll have a question about A, B or C. What do you think about this? I'm having some tightness in my shoulder. What do you think about this? And I say to them often, my response is going to be, well, what do you think about it? Because we come with some expertise and experience and background and we bring that resource to them. But I say to them, nobody knows your body better than you. You live with it literally your whole life. So what do you think? And then we come together and what I've found so powerful about that is one their own instincts are validated and come up to this place where they think like, well, you're the expert and you know more and they come together with this reinforcement of like, that's great, I think you should do that.
47:01
Greg Finch
I think you should also think about this. And then it makes this really powerful collaboration and so they take ownership of the action that they know they need to do to progress or improve. It comes from their own point of view and perspective and I think that resonates in almost anything, but specifically within their own body and their movement. It's just really powerful.
47:26
Taylor Knox
I think it's always more powerful to be asked the right question than be told what to do.
47:33
Greg Finch
Absolutely. So we have some amazing opportunities coming up to learn and to interact directly with Matt and Taylor. All of their Nature of Success programs, the retreats coming up, they do them multiple times a year in different locations. We will have that direct link on the episode as we put it up, but if you search Nature of Success, it comes right up and all those events are there. We also have a Master class, a movement and mind masterclass that's coming up pretty soon. I think there's only a handful of spots left on that. I'll also have that link up. What's wonderful about that though is it will also live in a streaming capacity. After that has unlimited and what we're really looking to do is to build opportunities to learn and teach in a group. Matt and Taylor are close friends that have built this amazing thing.
48:32
Greg Finch
Michael Rentala, Dr. Tim Brown. There's just some amazing minds coming together to provide opportunities to learn directly from them. Learn together. So I'll have that link search that a it's been a wonderful experience and opportunity to be around these great minds and the work that they're doing. If you have an opportunity to be in person or to learn from them in the streaming environment, do it. You will not regret it. It's a wonderful experience. So thanks you guys so much for taking the time and I look forward to seeing you live in a couple of weeks.
49:06
Taylor Knox
Sounds good, Greg.
49:08
Matt Griggs
Sounds good, Greg. Thanks for having us, brother.
49:10
Taylor Knox
Yeah. Thanks, Greg. Appreciate it.
49:12
Greg Finch
My pleasure.
49:16
Greg Finch
Thank you for joining us on the Surf Strong show.
49:19
Greg Finch
To find out more about working with me directly on your Surf fitness, go to surfstrongfit.com slash programs and we'll set up a time to chat.
49:28
Greg Finch
I'm your host, Greg Finch. I'd like to remind you to like comment, subscribe to this and all of our episodes of the Surf Strong show. Wherever you get your podcasts for all show notes and links that we talk about in the episodes videos of the podcast, you can go to Surfstrongfit.com podcast for this and all the past episodes. Thanks for joining us. It really means a lot.